How do you build B2B marketing programs that move beyond short-term lead counts and actually deliver lasting impact? In this episode of Pipeline Brew, Matt is joined by Fiona McKenzie, CEO of Revere, a UK-based agency known for its “marketing with meaning” approach.
How do you build B2B marketing programs that move beyond short-term lead counts and actually deliver lasting impact? In this episode of Pipeline Brew, Matt is joined by Fiona McKenzie, CEO of Revere, a UK-based agency known for its “marketing with meaning” approach.
With nearly two decades in B2B technology, Fiona shares why today’s most effective CMOs are as commercial as they are creative. She walks through outcomes that the C-suite cares about, how to reset strategy around shared definitions, and frameworks like Revere’s Wheel of Consideration, which reimagines the buyer journey beyond outdated funnel models.
Listeners will also hear Fiona’s perspective on bold creative, selling big ideas internally, and the role of AI as “accelerated intelligence” that removes friction without replacing human judgment. Whether you’re a marketing leader rethinking measurement, a strategist tasked with growth, or a brand builder looking to stand out in crowded markets, this episode offers a roadmap for making marketing more meaningful — and more impactful.
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Guest Bio
Fiona McKenzie is the Chief Executive Officer of Revere, a strategic B2B marketing agency in the UK. With nearly 20 years in B2B technology, she leads teams that combine buyer insight, brand, and demand to create “marketing with meaning” programs that build trust and long-term growth.
Fiona believe’s the best way to produce great integrated work for clients is to have a tightly integrated team, with a relationship founded on trust, collaboration, and transparency.
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Guest Quotes
“Marketing with meaning is really the ethos that drives everything we do day to day at Revere. It’s about making sure that marketing is driving long-term programmatic approaches that deliver results. It’s all about taking marketing from being seen as short-term lead generators to long-term impact drivers. That’s what resonates with marketers, moving from tactical thinking into long-term campaigns and initiatives.”
“The buyer journey has become overly simplistic. At Revere we’ve built a new model called the Wheel of Consideration, which helps marketers see where activity really sits in the buyer journey and how to connect with customers in meaningful ways.”
“We accelerated speed of delivery on an insane level. Historically, what would’ve taken months upon months, we delivered it in six to eight weeks with an 87% reduction in investment. That’s why I call AI accelerated intelligence, not artificial intelligence.”
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Time Stamps
00:00 Episode start
01:10 Icebreaker
02:35 Fiona's career journey in B2B marketing
04:20 Lessons from stepping into the CEO role
07:15 Defining “marketing with meaning”
09:20 Why strategy must get commercial
11:40 Resetting strategy and reporting for the C-suite
14:15 How to build ROI-driven plans on a page
17:55 Selling bold creative to executives
22:40 Positioning creative work as business growth
24:50 AI as accelerated intelligence in marketing
29:55 What’s on Tap
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Links
[00:00:00] Matt Hummel : Hey everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Pipeline Brew, the podcast that meets at the intersection of people and pipeline. We're bringing you fun yet insightful conversations where you'll not only hear from marketing experts, but also get to know them as well.
[00:00:22] Matt Hummel : Hey, everyone today I'm super excited to be joined by Fee McKenzie. Fee is the CEO Revere, a UK-based strategic marketing agency that turns meaningful marketing into long-term impact for technology brands. Today we're gonna go deep on marketing with meaning and what that really takes, why brands should aim to be bold and creative, and missed a noisy marketplace, and what the future of business looks like.
[00:00:46] Matt Hummel : Fee, welcome to the show. How are you today?
[00:00:48] Fiona McKenzie: I'm great. It's very hot here in the UK today. So the, uh, the temperature is, is we're not used to it being British. But other than that, I'm very good. It's great to be here and excited for this [00:01:00] chat.
[00:01:00] Matt Hummel : Aha. Well that's great. Well, I hear that you're having your office mates over today for a little summer party, is that right?
[00:01:06] Fiona McKenzie: It is, yeah. The reverse summer party today. So we, uh, pleased the weather's good for it. It'll be great to all come together.
[00:01:13] Matt Hummel : That's nice. Well, it's funny because I've spent enough time in London to know that. You usually aren't happy with the weather. It's usually gray and rainy or too cold. So true. But it's not too hot, right?
[00:01:24] Matt Hummel : It's just right.
[00:01:25] Fiona McKenzie: It's too hot today. But hopefully by the time the evening comes and we are all standing together with a glass of something in our hands, it'll be the perfect temperature. So, yeah. Uh, I'm looking
[00:01:35] Matt Hummel : forward to it. Well, beautiful. Well, awesome. Well, as you know, we like to start off each episode with a little bit of an icebreaker.
[00:01:40] Matt Hummel : So question for you is, what is your go-to beverage when you need a little, pick me up.
[00:01:46] Fiona McKenzie: Which, you know, I'm gonna be really boring. It's water. I know that like a lot of your guests will have some really cool energy drinks or, you know, but it's, it's just water. Like it, that's just probably my go-to is just, [00:02:00] I've always drank loads and loads of water.
[00:02:02] Fiona McKenzie: I'm not into coffee. Might have the odd cup of tea, but yeah, I feel like that's what does keep me going for sure.
[00:02:10] Matt Hummel : Well, you are the second guest in a row that has said water, so there may be something there. Okay, good. It might be onto something. Good. Well, before we talk more about what you're up to today, I would love to learn more about your background, your passions, your interests.
[00:02:24] Matt Hummel : Yeah. You wanna start there?
[00:02:26] Fiona McKenzie: So I have, for the last kind of 19 years of my career, I've, I've actually always been in B2B technology. I didn't set out with that plan, but it, it just kind of happened. I started in PR before I transitioned into events, experiential, and then moving into marketing. I've always been agency side.
[00:02:47] Fiona McKenzie: I can't imagine myself anywhere else. And I think. You know, throughout kind of the different agencies that I've worked for, one thing that's kind of been a consistent passion is the ability to try and [00:03:00] connect with the customer or that kind of, you know, customer service, those wow moments. So whether or not it's kind of connecting with the clients and creating the wow moments for them.
[00:03:10] Fiona McKenzie: Or actually helping the clients create the wow moments with their end customer. So that's what gets me out of bed in the morning. Like I've always loved that.
[00:03:19] Matt Hummel : I love that. When I worked at Demandbase, I worked for John Miller and he had that same saying of creating wow moments. And it was kind of an eye-opening thing for me because a lot of times as marketers we, you know, we try to be creative, but we certainly are focused on driving results, but often.
[00:03:33] Matt Hummel : We're so focused on that, that we sort of miss this opportunity to create something special that that wow moment. So I love to hear that.
[00:03:40] Fiona McKenzie: Mm-hmm. Thank you.
[00:03:41] Matt Hummel : That's awesome. So any big aha moments throughout your journey?
[00:03:45] Fiona McKenzie: I think probably the biggest transition for me in my career was when I stepped into the CEO role.
[00:03:51] Fiona McKenzie: I'd always played quite a key role in helping lead the business as part of the leadership team previously. But when I stepped into that CEO role [00:04:00] four years ago, that was, yeah, a huge shift. I'm very kind of process orientated, quite strategic thinker. So my kind of in my head, I was like, okay, if I have a strategic plan, if I put all these frameworks in place, then you know, we will be able to drive a great business, a great culture, make sure that Revere is a place that people wanna work.
[00:04:21] Fiona McKenzie: And I think it's an aha moment, but it kind of continues to be one where. I realize that culture of your business and your leadership and how you impact that, it's, it's not really driven by those big plans. It's driven by the small interactions that happen day to day and actually quite often what you do when things go wrong.
[00:04:42] Fiona McKenzie: So it isn't the summer party that drives culture as much, you know, as much as we all enjoy it. It's those kind of, you know, what happens when you miss a deadline? What happens when something goes slightly wrong and how you deal in those moments. And I think, yeah, realizing that it's those small [00:05:00] interactions that create and add up to what the culture of your business is.
[00:05:05] Fiona McKenzie: And then that makes it slightly more complicated because you know, you can't just put together a plan and execute it. It's a living and breathing ethos that you have to have and that starts at the top. So I try and work really hard on that now and, you know, make sure that that kind of focus is cascaded across our business.
[00:05:25] Matt Hummel : I love that. You know, you're one of the few CEOs we've had on the show, so you certainly offer unique perspective. You started back with Revere in 2017, and I believe as an account director, correct?
[00:05:37] Fiona McKenzie: That's right. Yeah, that's right. And
[00:05:39] Matt Hummel : so you really had the opportunity to grow alongside the company that you now lead.
[00:05:43] Matt Hummel : It sounds like you've got a really great perspective and handle on the organization now, but what was that journey like over the last, what now eight years?
[00:05:51] Fiona McKenzie: Yeah, I mean it's been anything but dull, that's for sure. Um, I think grow with your, you know, the organization as you just described is probably a really [00:06:00] great way to reflect on it, is I did, you know, just grow up with it.
[00:06:05] Fiona McKenzie: But I think it's probably what led me to take on. Initially stepped into a COO role before the CEO role. And I think it's just because I had that kind of entrepreneurial passion and spirit to just want to do the best, as I said at the start of, you know, our chat, the best for our customers are best for our clients.
[00:06:22] Fiona McKenzie: Mm-hmm. So as Revere grew and we continue to add headcount. You know, it just became really obvious, right? Okay. We need to start thinking about, you know, more structured initiatives for our team. We need more, you know, formalized training or all of these kind of things that lots of agencies go through when they hit that kind of, you know, that growth peak when you get to about 40, 50 people.
[00:06:44] Fiona McKenzie: And I think that was kind of what. Led me into the leadership position. It wasn't something I started out to do. It just kind of happened through passion, really to do the best for the business and the best for our clients. And actually, since I [00:07:00] joined Revere, I've, I've never thought about being anywhere else.
[00:07:04] Matt Hummel : Uh, what a cool story and what a journey you've been on. That's awesome. Well, I want to transition to today. I mentioned at the front of the show this concept of marketing with meaning. What does that phrase mean to you and, and the team at Revere? How do you, how do you live out this phrase in the work that you do?
[00:07:21] Matt Hummel : Mm.
[00:07:22] Fiona McKenzie: So marketing with Meaning is, is really the ethos that drives everything we do day to day at Revere. And that can take sort of two types of meanings to people. So internally, that is how we create meaning day to day. It's those small wow moments that we talk about. It's how we collaborate, it's what's meaningful to us as individuals.
[00:07:44] Fiona McKenzie: From an external perspective and thinking about the work that we deliver for our clients, it's really about making sure that marketing is driving those long-term programmatic approaches that deliver results. And I [00:08:00] think we have methodologies to support that and what that looks like, um, to bring it to life, the processes, the evidence to give the credibility.
[00:08:08] Fiona McKenzie: But really it's all about taking marketing from being seen. As short-term lead generators to long-term impact drivers. And when we speak to marketers, that's what resonates because they want to move from those short-term tactical thinking, you know, approaches into those long-term programmatic campaigns and initiatives.
[00:08:33] Fiona McKenzie: So it's all centered around that. Um, and it's really kind of become the ethos of what we do day to day. It always comes back to that. Are we on track?
[00:08:42] Matt Hummel : Love that. It's become pretty evident to me after speaking with a number of marketers and organizations. That strategy, this idea of strategy, seems to be all over the place.
[00:08:52] Matt Hummel : Mm-hmm. Where does strategy fit into the equation of how you plan, how you think about your work, how you think about marketing with meaning? [00:09:00]
[00:09:00] Fiona McKenzie: The role of the marketeer in terms of their strategic thinking is, is shifting, you know, substantially. The commercial marketeer is something that is spoken a lot by within the industry.
[00:09:12] Fiona McKenzie: You know, it's no longer enough to be thinking about creative brand initiatives. They're all highly important things that we do, and we all believe in them. We all understand the value, and that's a lot of it, you know, that's how we wanna connect with our customers. It's how we wanna be authentic, it's how we wanna build trust.
[00:09:32] Fiona McKenzie: But strategy almost has to start with the more commercial side of it. It has to start with, you know, the business goals. What are we trying to achieve? And I think, you know, people have become. I think it's become harder for people to work out how they strategically plan because they're trying to do a lot more with less, you know, their budgets are potentially being reduced in the B2B space.
[00:09:58] Fiona McKenzie: We've seen that, particularly [00:10:00] in the technology space where we play a lot, there's a lot of restructures going on, so they're having to strategically plan, which really should be a long-term, you know, a long-term plan, but actually like the, the roadmap and the road ahead isn't certain. So I think that's why people kind of struggle and I think it is, it's hard work for people to get out of the weeds, take a step back.
[00:10:24] Fiona McKenzie: A lot of the time, you know, marketers know what they need to do, but actually making it happen and executing it is is another thing. 'cause there's so many other variables that can stop them achieving that.
[00:10:35] Matt Hummel : A hundred percent. Well, part of your role as being a CEO, you also offer a unique perspective on.
[00:10:42] Matt Hummel : The challenges marketing leaders face with things like investing time and energy and budget into strategy, investing all the same into brand or as you mentioned at the top of the show. Thinking about that more long-term impact around driving sustainable growth, not just [00:11:00] that short-term tactical approach to marketing.
[00:11:03] Matt Hummel : What advice can you offer up to marketers, marketing leaders who are. Like you said, they know, they know the right things to do. They just feel torn between, you know, getting stuff done today or the pressures of the business versus, you know, I know what I need to do, but I just, I don't feel like I can really take that path where I, with where I'm at, whether, again, it's budget time, internal pressures or otherwise.
[00:11:25] Matt Hummel : I
[00:11:26] Fiona McKenzie: think there's a couple of things that comes to mind, and actually one of your recent guests, Troy, I really liked what he said around strategy, which was sometimes a strategy. It's about as much as it is just not doing the things you know, you shouldn't. As it is in doing the things that you should.
[00:11:41] Matt Hummel : Yeah,
[00:11:42] Fiona McKenzie: and I think, you know, reset strategy is something we work on a lot of our clients with, which is how do we help them take that step back in a moment in time and reset to make a decision about how to move forward.
[00:11:55] Fiona McKenzie: I think there's a couple of things fundamentally that can help marketeers kind of shift to that [00:12:00] strategic mindset. Terminology is a huge issue in our industry. You know, um, everyone has different meanings about what things mean. What does a lead mean in MQL? Like, it's so vast, the differences that you see across our industry.
[00:12:16] Fiona McKenzie: So I think as marketers internally within our organizations or within their organizations, they need. To align first the marketing team on terminology. What do we mean by all of these acronyms? These words that we are using, we are all clear, but then most importantly, they need to take that out to the wider business, the wider stakeholders that they're working with.
[00:12:38] Fiona McKenzie: And aligned to that with terminology. The other big failing that is commonplace is reporting and reporting in the right way. So I'm a big fan of, uh, Gartner's Hierarchy of Marketing metrics. I think it's a really good place to start. I use it in a lot of workshops just to kind of spark conversation, but it really kind of challenges you to think [00:13:00] about what is the audience you are speaking to, you know, what do they need to know?
[00:13:04] Fiona McKenzie: What should the KPIs that you report to them? How frequent should it be and how granular should it be? Because you know, you hear some conversations come up. I had a CMO talk to me the other day and she was like, oh, you know, the CEO was talking to me about click through race, and I was like, oh my goodness.
[00:13:19] Fiona McKenzie: You know what? You know? And I think it's really important. There are certain metrics within the marketing team that are gonna be really important, that are gonna be really. Part of that individual's role that you know it is meaningful for them. It's strategic for them, it's important for them. But as you go up the chain and as you go out to the wider business, you really need to make sure you are talking their language.
[00:13:42] Fiona McKenzie: Remove the marketing speaks, work out how they talk, and align your approach to them. And I think that really helps marketing collaboration with sales, which. You know, we haven't touched upon, but is clearly a, you know, continues to be a big issue in terms of driving [00:14:00] impact and meaning.
[00:14:01] Matt Hummel : Yeah, I love that.
[00:14:02] Matt Hummel : Somebody put it really simply to me a while ago where, you know, when marketers have their budget, you almost have to put on the CFO hat to some degree and say,
[00:14:10] Fiona McKenzie: completely,
[00:14:11] Matt Hummel : I'm getting this money. All I need to know is what are you giving me in return? It's kind of that simple. So
[00:14:16] Fiona McKenzie: yeah, there was a great challenge in a discussion I was with the other day.
[00:14:21] Fiona McKenzie: They said, if you had an extra million pounds, what would you do with it and what return would you get?
[00:14:29] Matt Hummel : Yeah. What return
[00:14:30] Fiona McKenzie: would I get if I gave you a million pounds? And actually where like a lot of marketeers are obviously working to their budgets, maybe they've always sliced them and ded them in the same way that they always have.
[00:14:41] Fiona McKenzie: You've not really got that kind of, you know, that big thinking, no, what would I do? But every marketeer that is driving, you know, every CMO should know exactly how to answer that question. How would they drive more impact and growth and what would the return look like?
[00:14:57] Matt Hummel : Absolutely.
[00:14:58] Fiona McKenzie: The other thing that I think [00:15:00] in terms of.
[00:15:01] Fiona McKenzie: Budgets and finding meaning in your role? You know, amid a challenging landscape, I would say is experimentation. Mm-hmm. It's really hard. Uh, you know, I've just talked about, you know, justifying, uh, spend and being very clear on ROI, but sometimes we have to have a, still have a little bit of fun in our roles as marketers.
[00:15:20] Fiona McKenzie: Yeah. So I think if you can kind of carve out 10% of certain budgets for experimentation. To kind of go in, not necessarily saying you're not gonna have a plan, you're not gonna have an idea on outcomes, but I think that's a really nice way to empower the people within your marketing teams and help them, I guess, challenge your thinking.
[00:15:40] Fiona McKenzie: You might know what you think the strategy is in the framework, but how do you move forward?
[00:15:44] Matt Hummel : Yeah,
[00:15:45] Fiona McKenzie: and I think, you know, a lot of strategic marketing plans we're talking about that. They create them, but they're almost too set. I think in this world, a lot of people they, they sit in two ways. They've got a plan and they're just executing it, or they're kind of [00:16:00] not doing a long-term plan 'cause they don't really know what the future looks like within their organization.
[00:16:05] Fiona McKenzie: You have to have a plan. It needs to be a framework, but it needs to be agile enough that as you move forward, you can go down different paths as you learn and you see what's happening in the world, um, and what's happening in your business. And I think that agility is really what's needed now. And quite frankly, I don't think we've got, you know, we don't think we've necessarily got the strategic plans, the templates, the.
[00:16:29] Fiona McKenzie: The approach to take, maybe that's the big gap that needs to be filled. And that's certainly the type of work we do with our clients to try and, um, yeah, help them.
[00:16:38] Matt Hummel : No, I, I wholeheartedly agree. Earlier in my career, I worked with an agency who helped me adopt a number of frameworks and plans that I would've not otherwise known how to do.
[00:16:49] Matt Hummel : And I've carried them with me, every organization I've been to, and they're very straightforward. Right? A lot of it's just how you map certain things, whether that's. Your personas, your campaign strategy, your content mapping and all that, [00:17:00] but that just sets the framework. It's kind of the non-sexy stuff of marketing, but it just makes everything so easy and so much more powerful.
[00:17:08] Fiona McKenzie: Completely. Absolutely. And I think if, if you can't distill your plan down whatever it looks like, you, right, where it's the CMOs all up plan for the year, whether it's one of your big campaign programs, you somehow almost need to be able to bring any plan down to a plan on a page. You know, what, what are we doing?
[00:17:27] Fiona McKenzie: What are the buckets? What are the percentages of resource? Where are the budget? Where's the budget going? And where's the kind of impacts gonna be? And again, thinking about how you articulate, you know, the role that marketing plays within your business, you, you have to keep it simple.
[00:17:43] Matt Hummel : Yeah. Well, let's, let's transition to our next topic around brand and creative.
[00:17:48] Matt Hummel : And you mentioned the word fun a minute ago and in a bit of a different context, just this idea of being innovative and, and having some fun to find meaning in your role. I often find that brands. [00:18:00] Art fun, and not in a silly way. You know, we're not gonna have cats crawling across the screen, although that maybe that would draw some attention, but maybe not be authentic to the brand.
[00:18:09] Matt Hummel : But what do you believe it takes for brands to really stand out? You know, to be bold and be brave?
[00:18:15] Fiona McKenzie: I think it comes down to some of the themes that we've touched upon, that you have to have a really clear framework to know kind of how to get to the brief. If teams go off and they kind of wanna pitch big ideas, but it's not considered within a wider strategy or initiative, or it's aligned to the business goals.
[00:18:34] Fiona McKenzie: That's where they don't get signed off, right? That's, there might be some great ideas, but they're ne they're never gonna make it out in market. So to get to the best creative is always about starting with that strategic plan in mind. Where does this activity sit within our, our marketing initiatives?
[00:18:52] Fiona McKenzie: Where does it sit within the other activity that we're doing? How are we gonna connect with customers? Where are they gonna be on that buyer journey? [00:19:00] And then you get a decent brief and actually, you know, your proposition, the story you are trying to tell, it's much easier to get to that big idea that's gonna differentiate in market than if you're kind of coming in at it from the wrong angle.
[00:19:15] Matt Hummel : No, that makes sense. I hadn't really thought about it from that perspective before. And I would imagine when you think about roadblocks that would sort of get in the way of marketers making. If their brand big, bold, brave, a reality, it's probably because they're not inherently tying it to, you know, ultimately the campaign efforts or what they're really trying to drive in market, and that ultimate return on investment.
[00:19:36] Matt Hummel : Fair to say.
[00:19:37] Fiona McKenzie: Yeah, for sure. I think aligned to that is most of the brands aligned to kind of, I guess the climate we find ourselves in and, and people looking for that immediate short-term impact. Mm-hmm. A lot of the activity and the investment is going to that kind of, the 5% of buyers who are in market to buy at any time, but we're kind of ignoring the 95%, you know, our [00:20:00] future buyers and that's the activity where you are really trying to connect with them on a.
[00:20:06] Fiona McKenzie: At a human level, on an emotional level, it's all about relatability. I think, you know, the buyer journey is become overly simplistic. The model that we all use, the, uh, AIDA model, you know, it, it was built in 18, 18 98, I think it was back before, you know, TVs existed. That wasn't sliced bread, you know? And yet we're still using this simple funnel to map our
[00:20:31] Matt Hummel : Yeah.
[00:20:32] Fiona McKenzie: Campaigns, to to map our creative to, and it's outdated. So at Revere we've kind of built a new model called the Wheel of Consideration. And I think, you know, what you can be really clear about is where is this activity sitting in the buyer journey, and how do we create impact and connection with our customer?
[00:20:52] Fiona McKenzie: And of course. That's, you know, if you are looking at that kind of building, uh, that relationship with a buyer [00:21:00] that's not yet in market, that's a very different approach from a va, you know, a storytelling perspective and from a creative perspective than if you're getting someone that's in market to buy.
[00:21:10] Fiona McKenzie: Yeah, but you know, the reality is by that point they have their shortlist and nine out of 10 brands will pick one off their shortlist. So your efforts are almost too late from a marketing perspective. So again, I think that's where, as marketers, we have to work really hard, educate our business, make sure they understand the complexities of the buyer journey, make sure they understand the transformation that's happened in the digital.
[00:21:36] Fiona McKenzie: Buying world and make our case, and I think that's where we'll see more creative opportunity and differentiation in market.
[00:21:47] Matt Hummel : Yeah, I agree. You talked about this idea of being shortlisted and you know, I think there's stats that say, well, there we all, we all know the, what is it, 80 to 85% of buyers don't engage with sales and that there's only 5% of buyers [00:22:00] actively in market.
[00:22:00] Matt Hummel : But those who, by the time someone's in market, they've already shortlisted. And so this idea of brand activation and awareness and education. Has really come back, I think Thank, thank goodness. Right, because it seemed like for a minute there it was just leads, leads, leads. Demand, demand, demand. Yeah. At the expense of that long-term brand building.
[00:22:18] Matt Hummel : But when you think about brand creative is just a part of that. Right? Whereas brand has become a lot more, I don't wanna say accepted, but it's back in the fold now. More and more marketers and organizations are investing in it. That doesn't necessarily translate to investment in. Creative. So for marketers, I'll ask you another advice question because your answer for the last one was so good.
[00:22:41] Matt Hummel : For marketers looking to invest in creative, what advice do you have to give them? Because I think that's one of the most misunderstood things in terms of how do you actually attribute or associate ROI to, to creative, and how should you even talk about creative 'cause it's not just the colors, you know, the pictures, so on and so forth.
[00:22:59] Fiona McKenzie: I'd [00:23:00] almost say start by probably not saying the word creative. You know, if, if you are trying to gain significant investment from your C-suite for, you know, a big creative campaign, probably don't say creative. You know, go in with the the impacts that you are looking to achieve. Yeah. Going with the business case.
[00:23:19] Fiona McKenzie: Map out what you think the metrics of success will look like. And it's about, I guess, kind of aligning it to growth objectives in the business and commercial goals. Whether it be, you know, trying to drive cross sell within your organization or go and enter new sectors or you know, new clients in a certain space.
[00:23:39] Fiona McKenzie: I think that's probably the mistake is leading with the creative pitch. If we get the trust as marketeers, we should be. Empowered to break that budget down as we see fit. So yeah, probably not starting with creative is my advice.
[00:23:55] Matt Hummel : Brilliant. Love it. All right. Well let's transition to our last [00:24:00] topic. Ai.
[00:24:01] Matt Hummel : Looking to the future, frankly, looking to the present.
[00:24:04] Fiona McKenzie: Yeah,
[00:24:05] Matt Hummel : so we talk AI a lot on the show, but it's always interesting and everyone has different perspectives and use cases. Revere recently won the best use of AI in partnership with geocon, beating out really large consultancy firms. So first of all, congrats to you and the whole team.
[00:24:20] Matt Hummel : Kidding.
[00:24:21] Fiona McKenzie: It was a great moment for sure. I'm not gonna lie, I was complete, I was as shocked as I think everyone in the room, uh, 'cause there was some significant brands there. Um, I think the reason, you know, ai, you know, to start off with AI has clearly like all kind of technology transformation that I've seen throughout my career.
[00:24:40] Fiona McKenzie: It obviously really aids. You know, we just talked about creative and there's a huge opportunity and we use a lot of tools within our organization to help now use, you know, tools for creative differentiation. But I think the reason why we won this one is because it really kind of demonstrated how. [00:25:00] AI tools can really support a more effective go to market.
[00:25:04] Fiona McKenzie: So we accelerated speed of delivery, you know, on, on an insane level. We had a client who had. 15,000 products that were across three organizations. They'd gone through a big merger and acquisition activity. They were all on like a different tone of voice, different instances, and we had to bring them together into one platform.
[00:25:25] Fiona McKenzie: And if we'd look historically at kind of the, I guess, legacy way of doing that through development, through kind. Copywriting, like manual review, it would've taken months upon months. And we were able to, I think it was delivered in between six to eight weeks. Um Wow. With, I think it was like an 87% reduction in investment that was required.
[00:25:46] Fiona McKenzie: And the time saving was just under 2000%. So I think when we were up against, you know, the other agencies, I kind of had a look after. I think a lot of it had been around how. Generative AI was being used for [00:26:00] creative impact and some incredible examples within that shortlist, but I think the reason we probably stood out was we were solving a real practical business challenge that brands have, particularly in the tech sector that we specialize in, where there's so much consolidation.
[00:26:15] Fiona McKenzie: You know, acquisitions are a commonplace. And also, you know, the client didn't come to us with a, hi, I've got an AI brief for you. The client came to us, as you know, we are with their strategic partner, their advisors. They came to us with that open brief. How do we do this? We need help. We need help. And um, we have a real mindset revere of, you know, act ai, think ai, you know, so that was kind of the first thought of the team is how can we use new technologies to do things differently and not just do things the way we always would've done.
[00:26:52] Matt Hummel : No, that's so smart. It's AI is not the strategy. It's an enabler like tech. It's a powerful enabler, but it's a great way to solve problems. [00:27:00] So I love that you, you often refer to AI as accelerated intelligence, correct?
[00:27:05] Fiona McKenzie: Yes. It's actually a big focus area for us as our business. It's kind of one of our priorities for our team for the year.
[00:27:11] Fiona McKenzie: So last year it was AI enhanced marketing, was kind of what we talked through. 'cause it was all still very kind of, I guess not new, but definitely kind of, you know, on, on the boardroom agenda in the last kind of 12 months for sure. This year we kind of have evolved it. So you know, it's about doing things more effectively.
[00:27:32] Fiona McKenzie: But we also play our part. There's that human overlay in terms of, you know, how do we bring that. So yeah, just trying to kind of, I guess, challenge people's mindsets in terms of how they think about AI within Revere to support how we improve our own work. Flows, our own ways of doing things, but then how we do the same for our clients.
[00:27:49] Matt Hummel : Love that. This is maybe a question for whether it's other agencies or marketers who are using AI or exploring partnerships with [00:28:00] agencies like yourselves who use ai. Sometimes I think AI still has this inherent. Icky feeling of, oh, I'm working with an agency who's just taking shortcuts to everything.
[00:28:10] Matt Hummel : It's, I'm gonna get watered down results. I'm gonna get sort of robotic, a lot of m dashes and certain buzzwords. How do you think about whether it's changing the narrative or how, how should folks think about the real value of AI so that it's, it's not a scary, icky thing, but really understand the true power that can be brought forth by utilizing it.
[00:28:31] Matt Hummel : I
[00:28:31] Fiona McKenzie: think, you know, if I look at the kind of success of how we've adopted it with our organization, I think it comes down to having kind of a framework of governance, but also a framework for ideation. So we have some really solid policies that kind of are the foundation of our AI strategy. And that's really important because I guess from a quality control perspective, as you allude to there, you have to make sure that there is that governance over what's being done [00:29:00] within your organization.
[00:29:01] Fiona McKenzie: Um, both for your internal initiatives, but also for any work you're doing out with clients. And that's critical at ve like that's been in place for a long time. I think from the value add perspective, it almost, it has to be the ethos of your agency. So for us. It's not something we've overtly had to think about because you know, we have.
[00:29:23] Fiona McKenzie: Quality assurance measures in place. You know, we have specialists in their field, so there isn't any tendency to be using tools to take shortcuts. If anything, we're probably way too picky in terms of, you know, when we do reviews, you know, there's a lot of debate and challenge, and that's healthy. That's what you want to take place.
[00:29:45] Fiona McKenzie: We have an AI mission group overseen by our. Chief Digital officer and, and he's really done an incredible job of kind of cultivating everyone in the organization to be excited, you know, to be excited by [00:30:00] change, to be excited by testing. And that's driven, um, lots of people coming to us and giving us ideas.
[00:30:08] Fiona McKenzie: It definitely can't be a top down strategy. You have to have everyone on the journey.
[00:30:13] Matt Hummel : Love that. Well, that's great. Great perspective on ai, so I appreciate that. As you know, I always like to talk to each of my guests a little bit more than just the work. I like to get to know them. And so this leads us to our final segment.
[00:30:25] Matt Hummel : What's On Tap? So what's on tap for fee? Not Fiona. 'cause I don't want anyone to think that you're in trouble. Oh, that's right. That's right. Well, at the top of the show we talked about water, which is your go-to pick me up beverage. Now, by the way, are you, are you a, a plain water? Are you a bubbly water?
[00:30:45] Fiona McKenzie: Just plain water. As long as it's cold. Very boring.
[00:30:48] Matt Hummel : Cold water. All right, that's it. Ice cubes or no?
[00:30:51] Fiona McKenzie: I'll take it or leave it As long as it's cold today. All right. Yes, please. Some ice would be great.
[00:30:58] Matt Hummel : Love it. So I'll flip [00:31:00] the question around, what is your favorite drink when you need to unwind? What will you be drinking tonight at the summer party?
[00:31:06] Fiona McKenzie: Well, it's a very, it's an easy one, and most people in the organization would be able to answer this on my behalf as well. So it's definitely a gin and tonic for me. Ah, um, and I'm not even gonna be shy in saying that. I really do like it in a nice balloon glass as well. You know, definitely some nice ice and some good tonic.
[00:31:23] Fiona McKenzie: Um, not into all these flavored gins now that quite a lot of people are enjoying with strawberries and things like that. I'm, I'm a purist. No, but, uh, yeah. A good gin and tonic at the end of the busy day is definitely my wind down medicine. Not every day. Love it. I will say for sure, but you know when you need to,
[00:31:42] Matt Hummel : when you need it.
[00:31:43] Matt Hummel : Well, and you have an excuse because besides being CEO, you also are the mom of four children, correct?
[00:31:50] Fiona McKenzie: Yeah, that's correct. Life is busy.
[00:31:54] Matt Hummel : Oh, no doubt. Why, imagine you've got. A crazy calendar to balance [00:32:00] work, to manage. How do you do it all? I
[00:32:02] Fiona McKenzie: don't think you do really, to be honest. I think, um, I, yeah, I have four children, two stepchildren who are 21 and 19, and then the other two are 13 and 10.
[00:32:14] Fiona McKenzie: So it's crazy. There's always something going on in the diary, but I think I've always tried to be really open with people about, I definitely don't feel like I, you know. Can do it all or do do it all. You are always as a working parent, feeling like you're failing somewhere. For sure. Someone said to me the other day, and it really stuck with me, you know, we talk so much about work-life balance, but actually it just feels like we're setting ourself a goal that's unachievable.
[00:32:44] Fiona McKenzie: You know, should we pivot the conversation to work-life integration? I really like that because it's about how you figure out how you can juggle, you know, and how can you integrate the different, I guess, kind of hats you wear as a person. What's important to you, [00:33:00] whether it be, you know, you're the CEO, whether it be a mom, um, you know, or a wife or a friend.
[00:33:06] Fiona McKenzie: Um, and you kind of have to figure out how do you make all these things crossover because it's not as simple as keeping them all segregated.
[00:33:14] Matt Hummel : No, there's no on off switch, especially post COVID where a lot of us are working remotely or from home. I like this idea of integration. I had a former CEO who coined it work life success.
[00:33:25] Matt Hummel : Now, he mostly did that because he didn't want people to balance work and personal life. He wanted to tip the scales to more work. But I took it as, I took it as finding success, whatever that looks like in both. And I like this idea of integration because it really is so difficult in our world, especially where we live and breathe and think and eat, just consume.
[00:33:46] Matt Hummel : Our business world all the time. So I think that's great perspective. Well, tremendous respect for you for what you're doing, both as a leader, but also as a mom and and spouse and all that. So very cool.
[00:33:57] Fiona McKenzie: You have to kind of model, I think [00:34:00] those conversations in the office as well. I think you have to open it up and allow people that kind of space to talk.
[00:34:06] Fiona McKenzie: But most importantly, like you touched upon that, you know, work life success. You cannot be successful in your professional life unless you are. Feeling balanced in your personal life? Yeah. Um, you know, it, it's just not achievable. So it can be very easy to consume work, uh, particularly when you're in a role of my nature, but you have to be able to take a step back and make sure you're looking after.
[00:34:31] Fiona McKenzie: To yourself. Make sure you've got kind of your personal life where you want it to be, and actually then that's where you find that you really thrive in your professional life. That's definitely kind of been my own experience, my own learnings through my journey, but also where I've worked and coached other people as well.
[00:34:48] Matt Hummel : Love it. Now your office is out in Marlow, is that correct?
[00:34:52] Fiona McKenzie: It is. It's a lovely little British village right on the river Thames that runs into London. [00:35:00] So, uh, we haven't quite got the London hq, but we're very near London Heathrow. Um, so it works quite well. Clients quite like coming out sometimes, we'll, they'll use it if they do their kind of global marketing meetup, so that's quite nice.
[00:35:14] Matt Hummel : Oh, that's awesome. Well, I haven't been out, but I need to. What are those? Can't miss things when you're out in Marlow.
[00:35:20] Fiona McKenzie: So we have quite, uh, one of, there's a, a Lin Stard Chef Tom Carriage, so he's very well known in Marlow. He has quite a few restaurants, so if you make it to Marlow, you have to go to one of them.
[00:35:31] Fiona McKenzie: He has a very, very posh one. But then at the other end of the scale, he actually has a butchers. Um, and this is a really bizarre blend, but it also has a bar in it. So you can go in, buy your meat, but then also have, have a pint of beer. So only love it in Marlo. I think you might find that.
[00:35:49] Matt Hummel : Love it. Well, awesome.
[00:35:52] Matt Hummel : I, I will definitely make my way tomorrow, next time I'm in London. So thank you for that. V this has been an amazing conversation. I just want to thank you [00:36:00] for taking the time out of your really busy schedule talking to, to me, and I know our listeners are gonna get a ton out of it. So thank you so much.
[00:36:07] Fiona McKenzie: Thanks, Matt. It's great to chat to you.
[00:36:11] Matt Hummel : Thanks again, defi for joining us on today's episode of the Pipeline Brew. I hope you all enjoyed the conversation as much as I did. Please leave me a comment with your thoughts and make sure you subscribe to the show so you'll never miss an episode. Once again, I'm Matt Hummel and I'll see you next time.